Comments on: A Revelation on Rights and Compulsory Schooling https://www.utahsrepublic.org/a-revelation-on-rights-and-compulsory-schooling/ A Constitutional Right Sat, 04 Dec 2010 13:15:01 +0000 hourly 1 By: Alamo Teacher https://www.utahsrepublic.org/a-revelation-on-rights-and-compulsory-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-1742 Mon, 20 Sep 2010 04:03:00 +0000 https://www.utahsrepublic.org/?p=769#comment-1742 See John Taylor Gatto’s book: The Underground History of American Education for further enlightenment on the subject of compulsory education and how we arrived at this dismal method of educating our young today.

]]>
By: TJEmama https://www.utahsrepublic.org/a-revelation-on-rights-and-compulsory-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-1163 Mon, 06 Sep 2010 16:55:00 +0000 https://www.utahsrepublic.org/?p=769#comment-1163 Wow! great comments everyone! What a great discussion!

I was introduced to the (already mentioned) Thomas Jefferson Education model about 5 years ago. It changed my life in a way I never imagined and it contains the root of what everyone seems to be getting at. Especially the stat that it is only about 1/2 of 1% of all parents who could supposedly do a good job at home-educating their children. Why is that?

The root of this is that education isn’t a 12-year or 16-year measured entity. It is a lifelong process and too many parents “graduate,” forget everything they know, and push their own offspring into this downward spiraling cycle. Nothing will change until the parents of the young children now start reading and studying and writing in journals and developing their talents and setting goals and using their knowledge to bless others, bringing their kids along with them. This is the upward spiraling cycle that will lead to the changes of which we are all dreaming. And this is the essence of “inspire not require.”

The last 5 years have been an amazing journey. I read and study and write daily. And not on a blog, in a notebook or journal, handwriting. My kids see me. They are learning above all else that learning doesn’t ever stop, that when they are moms and dads they will read and study and write. It’s not just something they do for school.

About this “inspire not require”; there has been much discussion about this just in the TJEd community. For myself, I looked to God to see how He handles it. Seems to me he does a bit of both. He inspires yes. But He also requires once we have been inspired. He seems to indroduce assignments and expectations right about the time we feel motivated to move on something. But as a parent, will I see the same cues God can see in my own children? Maybe not perfectly, but better than a teacher who doesn’t know him or her like I do.

I think many brilliant models have already been presented. The case that in Utah there is nothing stopping us is also food for thought. I believe something is stopping us, it is that my generation is already the 4th generation of completely dumbed-down individuals who has no idea where to begin. On top of that, this lack of true understanding and education has led to a general disposition of entitlement and sedation.

May we with young children, and those with grandchildren begin to make education a way of life, a way of home life, a way of living. Read, study, write, apply and keep going. Everything changes, and I believe that when my children have grown up and their children have grown up this way that then truly nothing will lie in the way of them bringing to fruition the ideals we now seek.

]]>
By: Glen Haner https://www.utahsrepublic.org/a-revelation-on-rights-and-compulsory-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-1144 Mon, 06 Sep 2010 01:36:00 +0000 https://www.utahsrepublic.org/?p=769#comment-1144 Amen Michelle! The term “thought police” comes to mind. Government religion/education equals government policing and ownership of human minds. Hellish stuff. America must desist from saying “sure, take my children’s minds, I never had much use for my own.” Parents of Crete and Sparta gave forth the minds and bodies of their little ones. The weak were lucky. They got thrown into a deep hole. For hundreds of years there was not so much as one “individual” there who could so much as eat a meal in the privacy of his own home.

We home school parents must go beyond saving our own. Our actions and words must inspire others to stand up and say “you shall not have our minds. They are not yours to take. Like our lives, liberty and property, this right is inalienable.

]]>
By: Oak Norton https://www.utahsrepublic.org/a-revelation-on-rights-and-compulsory-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-1105 Sun, 05 Sep 2010 01:23:00 +0000 https://www.utahsrepublic.org/?p=769#comment-1105 Jenita, I received this email back the other day after this discussion got started but the person didn’t post it here. I think I’m in agreement with Jefferson.
**********
Massachusetts had a 98% literacy rate BEFORE compulsory schooling. It’s never been above 91% since.

A couple of things: According to The Moral Dimensions of Teaching, ed. Goodlad et. al. “[I]t is precisely because [emphasis in the original] children are compelled and children are defenseless and have low status that teaching has moral obligations and thus moral praiseworthiness.” –Roger Soder

The main basis of this book’s morality in teaching comes from the idea of compulsion. Part of the reason that parents have no right to educate their children is because we compel them to have their children educated. If there were no compulsion, the assumption would be that parents were capable of educating children. Jefferson says, “It is better to tolerate the rare instance of a parent refusing to let his child be educated, than to shock the common feelings and ideas by the forcible asportation and education of the infant against the will of the father.”

]]>
By: Jenita https://www.utahsrepublic.org/a-revelation-on-rights-and-compulsory-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-1104 Sat, 04 Sep 2010 22:26:00 +0000 https://www.utahsrepublic.org/?p=769#comment-1104 Oak, in my reading I have found that the founders did believe that people have different abilities, and should therefore be trained differently. I believe they envisioned higher-caliber people in government, and that is why they stressed that we must choose moral people. We have gotten away from that, as we have become more immoral, and I believe that is the root of the problem. Would we have our current government if we elected only moral leaders? Someone said the most important question of a society is “Who will teach the children?” and from that comes “What will the children be taught?” Horace Mann succeeded in moving control of education from the local community, especially parents, to the federal government, and now we have a national education establishment that answers those two important questions, regardless of the parents’ wishes. I would want education to be local, with state funding without strings, with a variety of school styles and training, so that children would be trained according to their abilities and desires, under the direction of the parents. The local community should decide if education is compulsary. I believe educational problems, along with many of our society’s problems, would be greatly overcome if we stopped paying single women to have babies, and fathers to abandon their children. Fatherless children is our society’s greatest calamity.

]]>
By: Darlene_burgi https://www.utahsrepublic.org/a-revelation-on-rights-and-compulsory-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-1079 Sat, 04 Sep 2010 04:11:00 +0000 https://www.utahsrepublic.org/?p=769#comment-1079 We would have to return to the basic principle of assisting parents to feel responsibility for the education of their children . . . . the school (as local as possible) would assist. Parents have been made to feel incapable and have become incapable. Some will choose to be anyway, but the objective of the system we currently have has been to encourage this feeling of incapacity in parents. The bottom line would be home schooling with assistance available through local schools — yes, mixed ages and abilities, for the crucial education is in learning to live in harmony with people. This type of schooling would work better today than ever with all the technology we have. Using the golden rule the brightest would assist the weaker ones — thus learning becomes synergistic.

]]>
By: Oak Norton https://www.utahsrepublic.org/a-revelation-on-rights-and-compulsory-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-1066 Fri, 03 Sep 2010 12:40:00 +0000 https://www.utahsrepublic.org/?p=769#comment-1066 Excellent list Blackjack. Thank you.

]]>
By: Anonymous https://www.utahsrepublic.org/a-revelation-on-rights-and-compulsory-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-1056 Fri, 03 Sep 2010 05:24:00 +0000 https://www.utahsrepublic.org/?p=769#comment-1056 What would the “School of Beaten Down Doors” look like?
Very small—probably no more than 200-300 children. So small that every child is known and recognized by name by all members of the staff
Every member of the faculty has a publicized manifesto written and published for parents and students that introduces their beliefs, their purpose for teaching, their demonstrated expertise in a subject area, their teaching style, a syllabus of the course, parent support materials, video tapes of 1-3 of their BEST lessons presented to a live class, online reviews of the staff by parents and students outlining specific rating on specific criteria….extent to which student/teacher rapport is built, ability of the teacher to design student work that is engaging and meaningful to the child, grading standards, achievement scores publicized by student growth made per year and grade level standers met

Very specifilly defined standards, reading lists, projects, performance events

Flexible schedules to meet the needs of the child and family.

Outside of school learning such as travel, internships, and work experience or service experience counts as learning

Liberal arts curriculum–real liberal arts similar to the Thomas Jefferson education

Self-selected mentors

Physical fitness development extremely key–I believe physical capacity is a cornerstone to intellectual capacity and ultimately to the development of self esteem

God-centered. Daily prayer and reflection, discernment time built in to the schedule

Foreign language, music, philosophy, debate, oration,

NO ATHLETIC teams. Leave that to the community recreational facilities similar to Europe.

Required involvement of the parent would be a partnered learning experience where the child and the parent choose a project to accomplish together, or a subject to learn together. The child must actually see and experience the parent as LEARNER.

Abundance of technology

Hands on learning labs conducted by community partners who come in to share and teach about what they do to make a difference in the community, whorl, neighborhood.

Non compulsory however, very high standards and consistent boundaries established. For example, as a history teacher years ago, the stoners RAN from the parking lot to my classroom to get there before I locked the door and would not admit them to the learning OPPORTUNITIES we were experiencing without them if they didn’t show up. Interestingly, I had fellow colleagues how I got those kids to attend as they NEVER showed up to any class but mine. Hmmm I hadn’t been aware of that until they told me.

Writing, writing, writing, writing,……..WRITING…..mostly nonfiction.

Did I say cutting edge technology?

Is that a good start? Shall we go build that school?
Children and parents responsible for the physical upkeep, maintenance,
Cross graded in core subjects like math, literacy, science, oration, fitness

Well-defined and well publicized honor code with a focus on the development of a character. deserving of the
Right to freedom

]]>
By: pleasantgirl https://www.utahsrepublic.org/a-revelation-on-rights-and-compulsory-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-1049 Thu, 02 Sep 2010 23:26:00 +0000 https://www.utahsrepublic.org/?p=769#comment-1049 Thanks everyone for the lively and interesting discussion. I especially have to agree with Michelle that what is discussed on this forum was never taught to us in public schools and we have to come the conclusions we have because of independent study, not anything we learned K-12. It was only when I pulled my children out of public school, enrolled them in a private LDS based school that I learned any of what is discussed here. It has been an exciting journey!

]]>
By: Kristin https://www.utahsrepublic.org/a-revelation-on-rights-and-compulsory-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-1048 Thu, 02 Sep 2010 22:55:00 +0000 https://www.utahsrepublic.org/?p=769#comment-1048 Yes! Sisters in home schooling! The more women who start trusting themselves more than they trust a corrupted system, the more amazing the children of our homes and neighborhoods will be. Miracles will occur. God bless you, Jennrc3, and all other home schooling moms!

]]>