Comments on: Vineyard Meeting Results https://www.utahsrepublic.org/vineyard-meeting-results/ A Constitutional Right Tue, 29 Mar 2011 03:22:00 +0000 hourly 1 By: Oak Norton https://www.utahsrepublic.org/vineyard-meeting-results/comment-page-1/#comment-2476 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 03:22:00 +0000 https://www.utahsrepublic.org/?p=1302#comment-2476 In reply to The_Patriot.

FYI, it was Ken Ivory who amended Mike Morley’s HB 220 to insert “compound” and he got the phrase from James Madison. See the new home page of the site for an explanation.

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By: The_Patriot https://www.utahsrepublic.org/vineyard-meeting-results/comment-page-1/#comment-2474 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:58:00 +0000 https://www.utahsrepublic.org/?p=1302#comment-2474 It’s nice to finally see Oak taking up an issue worth fighting for. This is a much more worthy cause than his new push to get the state to teach students about his made up “compound constitutional republic” term.

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By: Dave Duncan https://www.utahsrepublic.org/vineyard-meeting-results/comment-page-1/#comment-2471 Sat, 26 Mar 2011 21:59:00 +0000 https://www.utahsrepublic.org/?p=1302#comment-2471 I think statement that “it’s complex” is often an excuse used by those involved when they don’t want to explain a situation where they know that they don’t have the moral high ground. I loved how many times the mayor tried to compare this RDA to worse RDA’s–especially that this one is less money per acre than most of them.

Of course, I’m simply opposed to RDA’s on principle, so telling me this RDA isn’t “as bad” as most, doesn’t make me feel that good about it. This is something the market can, and should, sort out. If there is clean up on the site that HAS to be done (which there undoubtedly is), then the developer should have assessed that, and figured it into the cost of purchasing and developing the property. If he underestimated, or the economy dipped (or both), then taxpayers should not have to bear the brunt of that. He should sell the property (at a loss, if necessary, or let it foreclose), and someone else will buy it for much less, and be able to develop it more easily, since they haven’t taken a huge loss on it. An obligation to clean it up, can and should be built into the price (just as it should have been taken into account when Anderson purchased it before the recession began).

At one point in the meeting, Mr. Anderson, stood to straighten out the record, and then proceeded to tell us that the site could be worth $3 Billion, and yet he’s apparently reluctant (or unable) to spend 5% of that amount ($150 Million) to get things going, unless he has a donation from government. Pardon me if I’m incredulous! If what he said is true, he should have no trouble securing bank loans, or attracting private investors. I’m guessing that since the money isn’t flocking to him, that $3 Billion estimate may just be a tad optimistic.

The worst thing about these deals is that we later find out that much MORE money is needed than originally expected. See the city of Orem’s commitment to Utopia, which was supposed to be self sustaining, then just needed an infusion of a few million in “guarantees”, and now has us on the hook for $50 Million, and possibly (probably) more.

I predict that once this RDA begins, there will be an inclination to spend the money on the easiest-to-develop portions of the site. Then we will later find out that they can’t do clean up and development on the rest until hundreds of millions more are “invested” in clean up. Meanwhile, the developer can just go ahead and develop the clean portions of the site with it’s own money, right now, if it really makes any financial sense to do so.

Sad thing is that Vineyard is being led down a primrose path here, and being extorted, almost, in that Anderson acts like it won’t even develop the clean parts of the site, unless they get the RDA money, first.

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By: milld https://www.utahsrepublic.org/vineyard-meeting-results/comment-page-1/#comment-2469 Fri, 25 Mar 2011 19:17:00 +0000 https://www.utahsrepublic.org/?p=1302#comment-2469 Thanks Oak! You do a great job of explaining this and thanks for Sowell’s article. It was very enlightening.

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By: EDB https://www.utahsrepublic.org/vineyard-meeting-results/comment-page-1/#comment-2466 Fri, 25 Mar 2011 14:13:00 +0000 https://www.utahsrepublic.org/?p=1302#comment-2466 Thanks Oak for the report. I feel sorry for the Vineyard City Council; good folks being railroaded by a developer. As for our late response, what citizen in Highland would have thought our school system would be impacted by the cleaning up of a dump in Vineyard. I’ve come to believe that if “it” is “complex”, it is probably evil. The “simple truth” takes on new meaning. Ed

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By: Buffy Snell https://www.utahsrepublic.org/vineyard-meeting-results/comment-page-1/#comment-2465 Fri, 25 Mar 2011 14:07:00 +0000 https://www.utahsrepublic.org/?p=1302#comment-2465 Great article Oak. You summed up the meeting nicely. And Kudos to Dave Duncon for his ability to express a good argument against RDAs. We need to let the private sector and the free market do their job.

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