The Doug Wright Show on Socialism in Schools
January 20th, 2011
Doug Wright was talking about socialism in schools yesterday quoting from the Fox News piece of the Eagle Forum conference I spoke at last Saturday. The Fox News piece only took a couple of sound bytes from the hour long presentation and Doug has extrapolated that short bit of coverage into assuming we think that our school boards are filled with communists (which we have never said). I was able to call in and discuss a little of this with him but time didn’t allow me to connect all the dots I would have liked to.
To clarify, we have never said there is a communist or socialist conspiracy in our local school systems. What we did at the conference (and I will post the video here as soon as I have it) was lay out the case for what has been happening at the national level where there is a clear case to be made that the DOE is deliberately dumbing us down, and give some examples of national educators who have been involved. We shared some personal examples as well such as how damaging constructivist programs like Investigations math has been to students. Progressive educators like John Dewey and John Goodlad are humanists who have stated they have an agenda to push moral relativism into education which was directly tied into an interview by Yuri Bezmenov (a KGB defector) who talked about how they bring down countries by making them immoral. “The Naked Communist” was quoted from where it lists 45 goals of the communists, among which are 5 that deal with education and softening it up so the population loses the technology and economics battles.
Regardless, I’m glad I was able to call in and at least speak with Doug for a few minutes about this.
29 Responses to “The Doug Wright Show on Socialism in Schools”
Well, forces are conspiring (working together) to bring socialism to our nation in incremental stages–the educational system is always part of the method of spreading the disease. I appreciate you and Susie educating me about this fact. Deliberately dumbing us down sounds like a conspiracy to me. Why is stating so in those terms a problem? Why is there a need to soften what is truly occurring? Is it because many in our local system do not realize they are being used by the conspiracy?
BTW, my father attended the Eagle Forum Conference and greatly enjoyed the presentation you and Susie gave at that venue. Thanks for all your hard work.
Listening to this, it seems that Doug likes to hear himself talk. He kept saying that he didn’t have much time, but every time he talked it took him forever to say what he was trying to say. Beyond that, it didn’t seem like he was trying to understand. He had already made up his mind as to what the issue was.
Personally, I don’t like Sen. Buttars and I think he does more to hurt the causes he supports by opening his mouth. But the fact is there are socialist ideologies being pushed in our schools and some school board members (not all) are either ignorant to them or they are also pushing them in our schools.
I found Doug Wright to be very condescending and dimissive. Today he is asking if teachers should grade parents. Hello, state agency that answers to the people, not vice versa. Arrogant. You sounded very reasonabe, Oak.
Doug Wright is a liberal hack masquerading as a conservative, consciences, Christian. I am offended that he has a job at KSL let alone the thought that anyone actually listens to him. If he were simply an uninformed person I would cut him some slack but no one reaches that level of doltishness without great and intentional effort.
He has no intention of getting to the facts, evidenced by his continual efforts to divert the subject to falsely premised tangents. He didn’t dare attack you Oak, because he knows he would lose in a fair debate. Instead he delivers rapid fire straw-man arguments and then proceeds to attack those instead, which conveniently eats up his precious time.
He seems to like using the word harrumph when speaking of those trying to stand up and make a difference, then he proceeds to harrumph as if it were his trademark. So it is apparent that according to Doug, no one is correct in their opinion or actions except for Doug, though we would be hard pressed to pin him down on exactly what his opinion is. He dismisses conspiracy as if all conspiracies are one and the same. He attacks those that call for and seek corrections in education then chastises all of Utah for letting it happen in the first place. All this while preaching to the citizens of Utah that they have let this happen and are to blame and yet it is he and other journalistic, and self-aggrandizing pinheads like him that love to remind and assure us they are the watchdogs, independently looking out for our interests and it is to them we must have our ear turned for our temporal salvation. For without them, we the ignorant masses would be lost.
Ugh! Who in their right mind seriously listens to this fraud?
Does Wright expect to be taken seriously?
Hitchins is atheist because he doesn’t know; Wright is aghast at Oak because he, Doug, has not done the research and therefore does not know.
Oak, you did great at staying calm and making your case based upon facts. If you’re going to convince a large enough number of Utah citizens of the Socialist influences and the unconstitutionality of the Dept. of Edu. you have to be calm and likable. I do also have concerns with Senator Buttars being the face of this. Take a cue from the master Fabian Socialist, Barack Obama. You’ve gotta have a spoke person with pizzazz and media savvy to persuade people to listen to you.
Thomas, The Pyrolitical Radio Show
Thanks Tom. Senator Buttars is a great individual who is unfairly portrayed by the media on a lot of issues. As chair of education appropriations he will be a powerful figure to weigh in on education issues. There are a lot of bills of interest this session from a variety of legislators. Stay tuned…
I agree with Doug Wright; the power should remain in the local school districts. We shouldn’t have Senator Butters running a state school board, teaching our children that there’s nothing wrong with school segregation or that black babies are “a dark, ugly thing.” (By the way, those are two things he’s said in the past few years.)
I encourage everyone to listen to this audio clip. Oak was given plenty of time to explain the socialist conspiracy supposedly infiltrating the Alpine School District. As Doug asked, who is “they” that Oak keeps talking about? Oak was all over the place and never was able to answer the question. I’ve read nearly every post on both this website and on SaveASD. Maybe I’m just too stupid to “connect the dots.” As I always say, “question with boldness.” I’ve boldly questioned the conspiracies Oak and Susie have alleged, but I just don’t see evidence that even the worst school board members and administrators in the ASD are trying to pump socialism into the classroom.
For example, take Oak and Susie’s allegation that “humanism” is being pumped into the school district. Even if this were true, let’s look at the first three tenets of humanism: reason, ethics and justice. (I’ve done my own research on this just like Oak encourages us to do.) Those are all GOOD things! I want my children to learn reason; I want them to learn to be ethical; I want them to learn to be just. Since when is that bad?? The fourth tenet is a rejection of supernatural (i.e., religious) explanations of phenomena. I agree that our schools should not degrade religion, but fortunately, and contrary to what Oak and Susie say, I don’t see this happening at all in the ASD. Most teachers in the district encourage students to be good, honest people. In fact, I think you’d be hard-pressed to find many employees at all in the ASD who believe we should stifle religion. Thus, when Oak and Susie allege a humanist conspiracy where none seems to actually exist, it causes many parents (like me and Doug Wright) to question what else they have been misleading about. The burden of proof belongs to the one making the allegation. I’ve more than diligent in researching the allegations Oak and Susie have made. If this were a court of law they wouldn’t have come close to meeting their burden of proof.
I’ve been called “Stalin’s idiot” on Oak and Susie’s SaveASD website for questioning the accuracy of all these conspiracy theories. Until I see concrete evidence that our school board and administrators are engaged in a conspiracy to turn our children into socialists, I will continue to fight the only battle in the district I believe worth fighting. That battle is to elect school board members who will get Investigations math out of the classroom at any costs. In the meantime, this humanist, socialist, and communist talk is nothing more than noise to me and many other parents in the district.
Jared, if you’d really read what’s on this site, you’d see that we’ve been talking clearly about the national agenda pushed by progressives. If you’re having trouble connecting the dots, try watching the 45 minute presentation (https://www.utahsrepublic.org/education/constitution-conference-presentation/) instead of Doug Wright’s 30 second news clip. I’m glad you favor local school control too. My next post should excite you!
Oak,
I’ve watched this presentation, and I’m just not connecting the dots. Your Goodlad connection to what is ACTUALLY taught in ASD classrooms is very weak. Even if everything you say about ASD administrators attending Goodlad’s meetings are true, it shows nothing about what’s ACTUALLY taught in the classroom. I’ve sat in I don’t know how many ASD classrooms over the years, both as a student and volunteer parent. Never have a I heard anything resembling Goodlad’s teachings. That’s what’s so ironic, in my view, about your presentation with Susie; what’s REALLY going on in ASD is not what you two say is going on.
I’m a pretty conservative guy with an advanced college degree. I know how to spot a liberal agenda or argument (believe me, I’ve heard a lot of them over the years), but, fortunately, I’ve never seen one in ASD classrooms except maybe from students (but I think even you would agree that students are entitled to express their liberal views if they have them). Quite the contrary, actually: way more teachers I’ve seen are conservatives if they are anything at all! The best you’ll get me to admit is that kids need to be better grounded in civics; many schools need to do a better job of leading a discussion on the Constitution, Declaration on Independence, and the Founding Fathers. But as for this Goodlad connection to the district, well, it just seems like nonsense to me. I’m more than capable of connecting dots, but I can’t if the dots don’t exist.
Jared, it’s not so much that Goodlad is in everyone’s classrooms (though there are a number of teachers and principals very enamored with his teachings–even distributing one of his books to legislators), but the administration has been pushing Goodlad to the point that they were willing to help us distribute free “In God We Trust” posters to the schools, till they found the word “Republic” was on it in the subtext “The National Motto of the Republic of the United States of America.” As I’ve said many times, this site started because of a lack of civics teachings. That’s still the primary goal of the site to see our state history standards revamped to include teaching our children that we are a republic and what that meant to our Founding Fathers.
Let me try a different angle…
You do admit that our children need better grounded in civics. Why? What has happened to our education system over the last century or more that has caused such a loss of important knowledge? Is it your opinion that it’s completely unrelated to any progressive education movement? Or would you agree that there are some people in high places that are actively trying to destroy the fabric of our society?
Control of education should be at the local level but the fact is that it is controlled by the federal government and the national teachers union. There is no local power that can stand up to these two groups alone. The reason that state legislature involvement has merit is because parents will need help from the state to fend off the self-imposed dictators over education. That is in fact what the state should be doing, that is protecting local schools and parents from outside interference so that it can be run locally.
if Jared is being honest, he seems to be a perfect example of the “Overton Window” or the gradual effects of teaching misinformation. He has no bearing from which he can measure the humanist and socialist skid the education system is in. Nor does he even realize the harm it is doing. This shows how vital it is that we have a less centralized and a more competitive education system. Private schools and home school are leaving public education in the dust but Jared can’t see that. American test scores are on the decline and have been ever since the socialist humanist agenda has taken hold but he can’t see that either. It makes me wonder if he were hit by a truck if he would notice that?
Everyday I ask my children what they learned at school and what they are studying. I am appalled at the trash that is passed off for education and yet the teachers say they don’t have time or money or whatever to get around to anything relevant or useful. It is like our entire education system is in a socialist remedial program. Dumbing down and numbing up.
Good post, Jared. This is exactly how I feel. I’ve tried to give a fair shake to Oak and Susie, but their logic seems to leap beyond logic and a lot of missing links seem to be magically filled with twists in logic, innuendo or misconstructions. For instance, one tactic is to say if you are not doing this, you must certainly be doing the opposite. It is akin to taking “absolutes” and putting them on steroids. One of the first things that I learned in pre-law is that a good lawyer can connect dots in a convincing way. It doesn’t mean that the dots are truthfully or logically connected, but as long as they tell a compelling story, you can often win your case. Oak and Susie have made a great case that Goodlad and friends have some socialist leanings, but they fail to convince me that the district office people are socialists pushing socialist agendas. Instead, a lot of glue has been used to fill in the gaps. The display of a motto is not good enough evidence. That doesn’t mean that the district people interpet Goodlad the same way as Oak and Susie do. That is the real missing link so to speak. In fact, they have explained their position, but it is not accepted nor will it ever be because minds have been completely closed off. I have seen no compelling evidence of Goodlad’s socialism being pushed on students in the classroom. There have been some weak attempts on saveasd to demonize teachers, but once again, a lot of glue was added to the dot connecting process. It kind of reminds me of Glenn Beck who is notorious for making strange connections. My favorite one is where he spelled Oligarchy (he misspelled it) and then found something in the Obama administration to start each letter with. For instance, “O” in Oligarchy stands for Obama. I couldn’t help but laugh at the strange display of logic, but then wondered how many poor fools actually fall for that kind of stuff.
I understand Oak and Susie wanting to be vigilant in keeping an eye on schools. That needs to happen, but it has gone beyond the point of reason and seems more like a solution in search of a problem.
Have you ever thought that you could also be an example of the “Overton Window?” Who is to say that you haven’t been given misinformation in this whole nasty business? If you believe you are right, of course, you will think everyone else is wrong and are walking, talking, Overton Windows, but it works both ways.
As far as asking kids about school…well, I’ve learned over the years that children can give you a watered down, brief, simplistic version. For instance, “What did you do to day in social studies?” ”
Oh, we watched a movie.”
I started thinking that they were just watching Hollywood movies all day long, every day the way you hear it from a kid.
Upon further investigation and talking with the teacher, a “movie” might be a 10 minute clip on Thomas Jefferson from a documentary, or a 20 minute depiction of a Revolutionary War Battle.
The point is that kids don’t often talk about the meat and potatoes of a class, but about the what they perceive to be the visual, exciting things such as films. Then when you look at their online grades, you realize a lot more than movies are being used in class with all those missing assignments. As parents, we need to be cognizant of the fact that our kids can be a source of information, but it shouldn’t be your only source of information if you really want to know what is happening. Kids are kids, and the way they perceive things can be entertaining and astounding. I can say the same thing to my kids and yet they can each interpret my words differently or oversimplify. (Disagreements with my wife often result from misunderstandings as well). I’m sure this happens at school–a lot, especially when their raging hormones causes their minds to wander off topic every few seconds. Just be mindful of these facts before passing judgment on schools and teachers.
Tom, thanks for the comments. I understand your frustration but I think it is a bit unfair to ask if someone was hit by a truck would they notice. :) We need to be more a little more patient with people and just try to help educate them as best we can. The public education problem has been shifted so gradually for over 100 years that the majority of the population has just bought into the education establishment telling us, “all the studies show this is the best way to teach.” We do take some hits on the site here from people like Jared and others and that’s good for us to have to better define our arguments. I actually appreciate Jared and Corruption and others that post their thoughts because then I better know what I may have left out of the message I’m trying to share. We can, of course, strongly disagree with people, but lets use it to refine our arguments. Thanks again for posting.
Corruption, I don’t know of any bigger example of the problem than constructivist math. Parents don’t know the damage caused to their children was a direct result of the district affiliation with Goodlad. Investigations math destroyed tens of thousands of childrens’ math skills. Textbooks were confiscated at 4 schools I know of to force teachers onto this program. One teacher I have personally spoken to said that her and other teachers she knows had the contracts threatened with termination if they didn’t teach it. Numerous teachers have told me they used to shut their doors to teach the times tables to the children. My first political “lesson” (mistake) was early on at a board meeting when a wonderful teacher was getting the teacher of the year award. She got her award, I spoke out against the math problem in the public comments, and when I left she followed me into the hall and said, “I used to shut my door to teach the times tables to the children.” I made the novice mistake of sending that story out to my list as an example of what the teachers were having to go through. One week later I had a letter in the mail from this teacher on official district letterhead stating that I had completely misunderstood her in the hall. I don’t think I need to expound on that story.
Goodlad’s reach has done tremendous damage to our district. His philosophies don’t have to be open socialist teaching in the district. Constructivist math is socialistic by design. Group work and emphasis on the process and not the result. As to whether or not you see that connection it’s irrelevant. I detest what has happened through Goodlad.
Replying on this thread is very difficult for me. Perhaps it is because I have a foot in both camps. Tom and Oak make some very compelling comments here, and I have no doubts at all that there is a general trend to “dumbing us down” and that the main focus of that trend is coming from the federal government, or at least from educators who are far removed from the classrooms in Utah, or who help train the teachers we are hiring today.
However, Jared and Corruption_exposed make some very valid points too, some of the best I have read from Jared in a while. Jared says, “Your Goodlad connection to what is ACTUALLY taught in ASD classrooms is very weak.” and I agree. Tom’s comment that “[Jared] has no bearing from which he can measure the humanist and socialist skid the education system is in.” is also probably true. Not only for Jared, but it is likely that none of us can get a true or valid measure of such a thing. It is fairly easy to see a socialist agenda being pushed from a national level, but it is a far cry to claim that it is happening very regularly in classrooms in Utah. My belief is that it is not. The warning signs are there, and at a national level, posturing is being made to facilitate it, but we simply do not have a wide-scale socialist movement happening in our classrooms. To be fair, Oak and Susie have never said that we do. But, the warning signs are there, this is clear.
What is reaklly happening? I am no expert, but it seems like we need a movement to stop the pendulum permanently. Way back in the early 60s it was swinging far to the progressive’s side, and then it was swung way back to the conservative side (Reading, Writing, Arithmetic), since the late 70s we have seen the swing back to the progressive’s side, and back and forth with little swings in between. This has been happening for at least 100 years. We really need to just stop the pendulum somewhere in the middle. It’s probably impossible, but it’s useful to try.
I am not advocating that we stop worrying about the pendulum, because the warning signs are there that it is gaining speed while moving away from the conservative side, and I am glad we have people like Oak and Susie who will use their influence to get the pendulum to slow down or swing back a little. I don’t think that our grand-children will be raised socialists in Utah, but I’m not bothered that people are worried about it and are trying and stop it. Hopefully all of us are in some way slowing the progress of socialism in the United States.
Oh, and P.S. More on topic: Doug Wright is an entertainer, nothing more. Same with Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, and nearly all radio hosts. Their goal is to entertain and their goal is to gain listeners. I do not fault them for achieving that goal. I listened to the segment, and Doug pretty handily made Oak look very conspiratorial, and that was Doug’s goal. Oak very handily kept his cool and very systematically and as thoroughly as possible got in some good points. Good job, Oak. I would have been pretty worked up if Doug had done that to me, and I probably would have only helped him in his quest to entertain.
Thank you Dougc for correctly stating that we never said or believe there is wide-scale socialist movement in our classrooms. Some have misconstrued our articles or websites to incorrectly assume that we believe a mass conspiracy is happening all over Utah classrooms. That’s media sensationalism and ridiculous rhetoric.
It is a fact that Goodlad/Ayers/Hammond/Dewey and the like are the most liberal Progressives in the nation and their purpose of education is social engineering ‘mingled’ with academics. It is a fact that ASD/MSE get their trainings and books from these educrats, pay dues for their involvement, sponsor them to speak, serve on executive boards with them and spend our tax money on these agendas. It is a fact that these teachings are all over the walls of our schools and being taught in some of the classrooms, perhaps without knowledge of what they are. It is a fact that Utah now ranks 41 in the nation in Education. This is a slow evolution of thought, not a takeover, so the methods are slow and interwoven into assignments and textbooks. Teachers are taught globalism, imperialism, social justice, redistribution of wealth, population control and other Progressive ideas in the universities and some bring these assignments to the kids. I’ve seen it and so have many other parents. Not in every classroom of course, but our main concern is that it is coming through the national, university and district level and our administrators and school board members who are supposed to be the watchmen on the towers are many times allowing and even embracing this instead of analyzing where it will take our children in the long run.
All we’re advocating is that parents stay aware, teach correct principles and that the district doesn’t overreach it’s limited duty to educate, not indoctrinate or take over parental responsibilities. It is a fact that most of these national leaders are humanists and socialists who think that children belong to the state, and that parents have no real right to their children’s education, but that the state knows what is right for their young minds. Why not break off from these national leaders? Can we not rule ourselves with localized control using all the intellect and experience we have in this county? After all, that is what our Constitution calls for. Or if we do want to gain knowledge from national leaders, can we not choose leaders who are more alligned with Constitutional principles and a more Classical approach rather than global governance, democracy and social justice? If indeed our district leaders don’t identify with the radical and progressive agendas which the national teachers unions and Progressive educators push, why are they alligning with them, using all of their programs, using their wording and spending our money on these programs? Why think that merely ‘redefining’ the terms of the national educators is enough to stay safe from the most radical stances? Why say that they can just hand-pick what they like and leave the rest behind when ALL of our money goes to the complete agenda of these socialists who ultimately want revolution of the country? If our local leaders cannot even agree what social democracy is, I don’t trust that they can go to trainings filled with the most worldly philosophies and pick and choose what they want to bring back to our children. Surely the money spent on these radical Progressive trainings, overblown beaurocracies and national programs would be better spent on our local teachers and children.
Oak, I will take your advice and implement more patience in my correspondence. It is true that I become impatient with those that do not see simply because they do not desire to see nor do they think they have any need to put forth the same great and lengthy effort in research and understanding that others have in order to be on equal ground. What I mean is people tend to think that their opinion is of equal status simply because of their other accomplishments in life and that somehow that makes them all knowing without true in-depth research. I suspect that Oak and Suzie have committed years of their lives to studying such matters, I know I have.
In response to “corruption’s” point that I may also be a victim of the overton window, I wholeheartedly agree. In fact that reaches to my very point and it is this.
This statement by Thomas Jefferson from his bill on religious freedom must be personally accepted before anyone can move forward in intelligent thought. “Well aware that the opinions and belief of men depend not on their own will, but follow involuntarily the evidence proposed to their minds,…” In other words our thinking is no more than the accumulation of that which has been placed in our minds by others, thus following the old adage “garbage in—garbage out.” Some find this offensive and insist that their thoughts are their own creation but history, common sense, and a truthfulness to oneself reveals that it is in fact very very true. One must be willing to challenge his own preconceptions and all that he takes for granted as truth before he can truly know anything with certainty. It is by sad personal experience of being deceived by others and accepting it without challenge that has brought me quaking to my knees and fearing with the greatest fear imaginable to man that has brought me to the point of sober commitment to doing whatever it takes to learn truth and shed deceit. This is no light burden and it prevents me from moving quickly at times but this commitment to eternal truths and grinding studies along with the very gifts of God that without no man can know the truth has opened my eyes to see that which is not seen by others. This great blessing can be a lonely and frustrating place. To see destruction and suffering in the distance, consuming all in its path and rumbling with irresistible force toward my people but because they cannot see it they laugh and point in scorn, causes me great pain and makes it difficult for me to be patient when they treat my warnings with contempt.
I will try to be more patient but I insist on clarity that no one may claim I did not warn them.
Again to “corruption’s” point, I did not come here easily nor do I address this subject lightly or with any pride or arrogance. I have nothing personal to gain. If I am wrong I welcome correction but I do so disdain cutesy misdirection in this debate as if this were some personal game. Others insist that I bring evidence, which I endeavor to do. I ask the same, so please do not bring an attitude that the responsibility is on me to prove to you, allowing you to simply deflect with a haughty response or act as if your neck were too stiff to turn and see. If you are honest, I expect some effort on your part. If you honestly ask questions then that will tell me you are sincere and honest. If you bring deflections that tells me you are not honest or sincere but driven by your own pride. If that is the case, all I can say is repent or suffer the consequences. Unfortunately, what happens to one happens to some extent to all and we must all suffer because of the sloth and arrogance of others.
Okay I now ask feedback from any and all. Was this kinder and gentler yet firm and to the point? How may I have said it better?
Oak,
What part of Goodlad’s methods are “teachers and principals very enamored with”? Are they enamored with his belief that kids should be taught reason? Or how about s belief that kids should be taught ethics? Or what about his argument that kids should be taught justice? Those are the first three tenets of humanism (the philosophy Goodlad embraces), and quite frankly, I’m enamored with all three. Oh, and I’m conservative. Where Goodlad and I disagree, and where I believe nearly all principals and teachers in the district also disagree with him vehemently, is where he teaches that we must reject all supernatural explanations of phenomena. Thankfully, I’ve never heard anyone in the ASD suggest kids’ religious beliefs are false.
You’re making a major logical fallacy by suggesting that because Goodlad espouses some false beliefs, all his beliefs must therefore be false. You extend this logical fallacy by saying that anyone who attends a Goodlad-sponsored conference must therefore be enamored with ALL of Goodlad’s beliefs. Do you see how these are logical fallacies?
I’ll answer your questions about why I believe children need to be better grounded in civics after I receive an answer to the above questions. The response can either be a rebuttal or an acceptance that the argument I’ve laid out above is true. I feel this is a fair request since you basically sidestepped my humanism questions the first time I asked them.
Jared, a large percentage of what Goodlad and Dewey and others say is common sense stuff that everyone can nod their head in agreement. We’ve published that before. Asking if we want “justice” is silly. Of course we do. What we don’t want is “social justice” which is what Goodlad is pushing. Check it out right now. The home page of his NNER website is advertising the conference for teachers to bring activism toward social justice into the classroom. (https://www.nnerpartnerships.org/)
Do you favor equity? So does Goodlad. So do I. It’s just what we mean by equity where we differ. Glance down Goodlad’s webpage and you’ll find “2010 Expert Panel: GLBT Students Preparing Future Teachers to Ensure Equity”.
The old story about the frog in boiling water is true. You feed people a lot of truth and a couple of lies and they start to have some buy in because you’re feeding them so much common sense truth. It masks the deception. You appear to be LDS from your posts so I’ll refer you to this page: https://www.utahsrepublic.org/education/dealing-with-korihor/.
I’ve never said that because some of his beliefs are false they are all false. I’ve said he’s trouble and we ought to find other educational consultants to work with, and I’ve questioned why we even need any. Teachers went to school and learned how to teach. We don’t need a consultant telling us how to democratize art and music classes.
So, are you saying that you distrust district officials in deciding what is common sense stuff we can all agree with and what is not common sense stuff? You continue to cite the most disagreeable things promoted by Goodlad and friends such as the GLBT Students post, but do you really think our district would promote GLBT stuff in our schools? I think the district has done a good job in keeping this garbage out of our schools. I understand the concern for keeping this stuff at bay, but its seems like the school district is being attacked for things it hasn’t even done yet and may never do. It is okay to be fearful and wary, but to not let our fears lead to irrational behaviors and extreme paranoia and the unfair demonization of other human beings. Remember the Star Wars movies and the theme of “fear” and “anger” leading to the Dark Side? I think there is a lot of truth in that.
Well said, Corruption_exposed. As with most organizations, there are a couple of reforms that need to take place within the ASD. For example, I believe the variations on Investigation math that the district teaches fall far short of adequately teaching kids basic math skills. I’ve been a vocal critic of the district for its math program. However, the fear and anger Oak and Susie promote are making it very difficult to secure any sort of real change where it’s actually needed. I don’t see how Oak and Susie can possibly “fix” the problems of socialism and humanism seeping into the district because, quite frankly, these “problems” doesn’t exist! This whole issue reminds me of the global warming hysteria, only this is coming from the far right instead of the far left.
Oak does have one thing right: “The old story about the frog in boiling water is true. You feed people a lot of truth and a couple of lies and they start to have some buy in because you’re feeding them so much common sense truth. It masks the deception.” That’s basically what he and Susie have done. They share lots of fiery truths (e.g, Goodlad is a progressive socialist, communism doesn’t work, Bill Ayers is a terrorist, Bill Meyers believes Jesus was a vampire, etc.) and then mix in a couple untruths (e.g., socialists are on the brink of taking over the ASD classrooms). The ASD isn’t being taken over by evil forces just because Goodlad, Ayers, and Meyers, and communists have some crazy beliefs. To assert that the beliefs of a few crazy loons with a VERY loose connection to a couple people in the ASD somehow means socialism is about to befall our children unless we do something is such a stretch in logic that I fail to see how any reasonable person could believe it.
I cannot speak for Oak, but did he ever say that “socialists are on the brink of taking over the ASD classrooms?” I highly doubt it. This is another straw man. Again, I cannot speak for Oak or Suzie but what I hear them saying is that “socialist thinking” has already crept quietly into, not only ASD, but our entire public school system. Oak names names and quotes them as evidence of the fact but these are dismissed because these people are not sitting in ASD classrooms they are only instructing teachers and the teachers are not wearing hammer and sickle armbands so it obviously is having no effect. Oak quotes ASD officials and their mission statement but this is dismissed because even though the ASD preaches out of the socialist handbook as it were (I know there is no real socialist handbook for teachers, at least I don’t think so) that isn’t really what they meant. When they say “social justice” they don’t mean it the same way the socialists do, what they really mean is that “all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights.” Maybe they just got those confused, they are so similar and all. It is an honest mistake anyone could make. In fact don’t we all do it at one time or another. I know that when I say the pledge of allegiance I often accidently say “the democracy for which it stands, one nation under humanism (sometimes I even say pastafaria), divisible by race, and sexual preference etc. etc., with social justice for all.” It is such an easy mistake it is funny isn’t it?
I am not trying to be flippant, rude, or mean. I am trying to demonstrate how absurd the premise is that there is no evidence of socialist thinking within the education system or ASD for that matter. We are asked to believe that these evidences of fact are either innocent or misunderstood as if they were common mistakes or slips of the tongue. These quotes and actions were not done in a vacuum. They replaced long held American values. It is impossible for American values that are so completely unique in the world that they stand out in glaring color to be accidently replaced with socialist thinking. It must come from somewhere and it cannot be by accident, as I have demonstrated.
I hope that we all can see how silly it is to even have to debate this for the the fact is there before us and there is no honest denial of it. Even if you believe that the degradation of American public education and the advancement of social thinking is entirely an innocent mistake that is fine I don’t care, but can we agree that it has gone off course and needs to be course corrected back to what has made America great and for one hundred and fifty years put American education at the top of the world? Or are we going to quibble about what it is and what it isn’t while we watch it slip into mediocrity?
How much common sense does it take to realize that memorizing something simple like the times tables gives children an incredible opportunity to free their mind to do upper math? If they can’t figure this out and for nearly a decade cite “all the studies support this” when in reality my grama request in 2009 proved they had no studies, I have very little confidence in their ability to exercise common sense. Thank goodness for all the teachers that took the risk in teaching children the times tables when they were under pressure from the district to not do it. I know a legislator who was in a meeting in Orem when ASD told parents back in 2001 when this was introduced, “parents, don’t teach your children the times tables at home or it will mess them up.”
As for citing disagreeable stuff, don’t blame me, it’s front and center on Goodlad’s site. :) I’m just pointing out this is the person we’re associating with. He’s a modern day Korihor. I don’t expect ASD to rush out and pull GLBT stuff in. But I have seen real effects of his dealings in the district. I also disagree that I’ve unfairly demonized anyone. I have stated facts that are concerns. The press has made unfortunate statements, in some cases things I didn’t even say or ever imply which may lead some like yourself to view me as paranoid or irrational. For heavens sake, they said I thought the federal government was run by the power of God. Twice! How anyone could think I would believe that is beyond me. :)
As a parent of 4 school-aged children that just moved into ASD, I see first-hand the subtle (yet real) influences which Oak and Susie are warning about. Some influences are not even subtle. Let me illustrate with just one example:
One of my children is in an AP World Geography class in Junior High. This class couldn’t be more distict from the classical education most of us were taught. Rather than learning crucial facts about the nations and peoples of the world, it is barely more than an indoctrination experience in “global governance”, one of the most important goals of the radical progressive agenda.
My daughter, in just the first half of the year, has participated in two Mock U.N. sessions (one an overnight experience away from parents) where they learn first hand how the solutions to the worlds problems are global.
Naturally the solutions which students are guided to require real global power to be enforcable, including global monetary and military power. Human rights are a frequent topic, yet the rights to be enforced are things like food, health care, and birth control granted by government, far from the natural rights spelled out in our Declaration of Independance.
How long can we can bury our heads in the sand and tell ourselves in naivety that this isn’t happening here? As parents we have every right to demand accountability, including that our tax dollars are spent wisely and that our children are taught in ways that reflect the standards of our community.
I think they are selling life-size bubbles at Home Depot this week. Perhaps you can get one for your child. It might even match yours.
The purpose of taking AP Geography is to pass the examination for college credit. If you don’t like the AP Curriculum, pull your child out of the class. You don’t have to ruin it for everyone else though.