David O. McKay on Republic vs. European ‘isms’

If we would make the world better, let us foster a keener appreciation of the freedom and liberty guaranteed by the government of the United States as framed by the founders of this nation. Here again self-proclaimed progressives cry that such old-time adherence is out of date. But there are some fundamental principles of this Republic which, like eternal truths, never get out of date, and which are applicable at all times to liberty-loving peoples. Such are the underlying principles of the Constitution, a document framed by patriotic, freedom-loving men, who Latter-day Saints declare were inspired by the Lord.

It is highly fitting as a means of making the world better, not only to urge loyalty to the Constitution and to threatened fundamentals of the United States government, but to warn the people that there is evidence in the United States of disloyalty to tried and true fundamentals in government. There are unsound economic theories; there are European “isms,” which, termite-like, secretly and, recently, quite openly and defiantly, are threatening to undermine our democratic institutions.

Today, as never before, the issue is clearly defined—liberty and freedom of choice, or oppression and subjugation for the individual and for nations.

As we contemplate the deplorable fact that within the brief space of one year, ten European nations have lost their independence, that over two hundred and fifty million people have surrendered all guarantees of personal liberty, deeper should be our gratitude, more intense our appreciation of the Constitution, and more strengthened our determination to resist at all costs any and all attempts to curtail our liberties, or to change the underlying system of our government. (“Essentials of a Better World” 698)

14 Responses to “David O. McKay on Republic vs. European ‘isms’”

  • Fir:

    Oak, is this the 20th or 30th time you have cherry picked a quote from the past and left out the historic context? This quote comes from the early 1930's when facism and nazism had just become popular in a few countries in Europe. Of course David O. McKay would speak out against those things. By the way, i love how you keep quoting LDS prophets before they were actually prophet. Kind of misleading I would say. (No I am not saying they could only speak truth once they were prophet- I am just pointing out that you are a master at manipulating the simple minded who would see a quote by someone who would become prophet and believe they said it as prophet because you provide no historic context to the quote.)
    The “isms” being referred here to here also have nothing to do with what you claim this website is about: Republic versus Democracy. “isms” are always about economic systems and not governments so I don't see the revelence of this quote on your site at all. Unless you are trying to manipulate your sheep to think that socialism is a form of government, or perhaps you are just misinformed yourself and don't know a government from an economy.

  • Oak Norton:

    Hey Fir, when this site becomes a democracy, I'll be sure to let you know so you have a vote in what I post. Till then, I'll post whatever I think is relevant, or will annoy you enough to post. :)

    As for the hundreds of free thinkers on my petition, I think they'll realize the above quote was true no matter when it was given. You may want to take note of the fact that I didn't say “President David O. McKay” just so you're fully aware that I wasn't misleading anyone. David O. McKay is allowed to make a statement and be quoted on it no matter when he said it.

  • lewisbarnavelt:

    Oak, I have to agree with Fir. I think you really don't understand the difference between an economic system and a political system. In an e-mail exchange last year, I cornered you on the same issue when you said that communism was a government system rather than an economic system. You still wouldn't fully accept my explanation and needless to say, my academic colleagues in the poly sci department had a good laugh. Exactly what do you do for a living anyway?

    What I find even more interesting is that David O' McKay used the phrase “Democratic Institutions.” I'm surprised you didn't pick up on that, Oak. How do you explain McKay's use of the word “Democratic” by a future prophet of God?

  • Communism is an economic system. So is fascism. Both are directed by totalitarianism.

    As for the phrase, yes “I picked it up” and yet I still published it. Amazing isn't it? :)

  • lewisbarnavelt:

    I'm glad to see that you finally realize that communism is an economic system. Congratulations, Oak. Just one step at a time and by being able to see a broader picture and appropriate historical perspectives, you will reform your ways. I have faith that you can change.

  • Fir:

    Oak, I was only pointing out that you have told me to stay on the topic of the website so I thought I would throw that back at you. I guess your Hypocrisy knows no bounds.
    Since you claim that you are not purposely misleading others, I must assume that it is unintentional and I have been giving you credit for being much smarter than you really are. But if you can't see that many of your supporters do misinterpret what you are trying to do then you are not even half as smart as I have given you credit for. I believe you let them take what you are trying to do to a bad place and are happy they are doing it because it does promote your ideas. This belief is why I continue to post on here. I want there to be a counter balance to what you are saying and tyring to push.

  • Ahh, the turn to insults. You left wingers are so adorable in your self-righteousness.

  • Fir:

    Oak, There was no insult implied in what I wrote. I was merely writing my thoughts and new realizations. I have given you more credit than you deserve and I realized it yesterday.
    Again, you claim I am a left-winger. I find that hilarious. My friends from other states call me a radical conservative. Just because I am left of you (as 99.9% of the world is) doesn't make me a left-winger. Since when are left-wingers the only people to turn to insults anyway? I have watched Glenn Beck insult everyone under the sun that doesn't agree with him.
    Also, I am far from self-righteous (thanks for trying to flip my argument about you around though). I just have the ability to see when people are spreading fear, paranoia, hatred, and greed. That is not bragging, it is what it is. As I have stated before, I see that you and your followers are spreading all of those things and so I will speak out against you. You have deluded yourself into believing you are fighting God's battle, but God wold never want people to spread those things. Once again, God's message is only about Love and service. The Gospel is true no matter what type of economy or government people live under. It is not more true if we are a Republic or Capitalist nation than if we live under tyranny or communism.

  • Right. I've just loaded this site with “fear, paranoia, hatred, and greed.” Hmm, I guess you'd best start complaining to the LDS church that some of the prophets and other leaders of the church have also been doing that for decades as they've spoken out against Dewey, in favor of the Constitution, and against moral relativism.

    Was the Book of Mormon written for our day? If so, then why include Alma 30 about Korihor if not to warn us about the false doctrine of humanism? It was given to us precisely to watch for it and stand up to it.

    As for Christ only being about love and service, you've completely left out the other side of the equation. He also said in Matthew 10:34, “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.” Yes, we are to renounce war and proclaim peace, but we wrestle against principalities and rulers of darkness. There is a spiritual battle going on that must be fought. No man can serve two masters.

    We are to stand up and defend the Constitution and true God given rights. The Lord himself gave us that injunction in the Doctrine & Covenants. The Constitution declares us a Republic, not a Democracy, and certainly not a Social Democracy as Goodlad the Korihor/humanist desires us to become.

    Would you be surprised to learn that Goodlad's NNER has tried to coerce BYU into accepting homosexuality? Do you support that? If not, why support Goodlad? It's all part of his Agenda.

  • Fir:

    Oak, at least I am able to separate a church leaders personal views and church doctrine. Your love of Benson's politics is not a love of truth. Benson was extreme in his views and the church had to apologize for him several times before he was prophet “woman's place is in the home,” “no good Mormon can be a Democrat.” If his views were church doctrine than they would have been announced over the pulpit of every LDS church building. Even as prophet he never went on the politic rants he would before he was prophet- which shows it was personal convictions, not doctrine.
    As for your obsession with Korihor, I found the article that talked about Korihor and his connection to modern day Humanism. It helped me see more about where your views come from. I can now see why you have many of the views you do, I just happen to think the article has a different than you do.
    When did Goodlad demand that our schools teach that the government should control all businesses? When did he proclaim that we should only see that Man is great and God is not? There is a difference between wanting to keep a specific religion out of public schools, as did the founding fathers, and saying there is no god.
    As for your sword, you have greatly misinterpreted that scripture. That scripture has nothing to do with principalities or rulers. I agree we need to try and help people see truth and be brought closer to the lord, but not with a sword of justice as all your comments have ever proposed. The sword refered to in this scripture is that of truth- not justice. Love and service is the sword.
    Your biggest problem Oak, is that like Glenn Beck you seek to tear down and destroy things you deem to be your enemy. You have missed the whole point of LDS doctrine, to build up the kingdom of God. Satan is the one who would have us tear down all other kingdoms. Through and service the lord's kingdom will be built up, not by using your sword to tear down everything. A quote I read by Bruce Hafen sums you up pretty well: “You might also ask yourself how much governmental intervention into the regulation of business and private life is too much. The people on the extreme sides of these questions convey great certainty about what should be done. However, I think some of these people would rather be certain than right.” You are very much the person is that concerned with being 'certain' rather than 'right'.
    Finally, the issue of homosexuality. I support homosexuals the way the church has asked me to- I show them unconditional love. Homosexuality is one of billions of sins humans suffer under. If sin will not be tolerated in any form, than homosexuality is no greater a sin than when I commit ANY sin. People like you tend to think there is no greater sin than homosexuality, but yet Christ focused on judging others more than anything else. It is not my place to judge another's sins. So, I would never be involved in not accepting homosexuals since I want to be accepted despite my sins. Besides, I know several homosexuals who are some of the greatest Christians on Earth, despite their sins. Also, your arguments against Goodlad are so narrow-minded- because he has a politic view you disagree with we must shun everything he says. What would you do if President Monson said something at GC that you didn't like? Would you then say we must disregard every thing he said? Even though I disagree with some of Benson's politics, I fully support his teachings on the family, the BofM, etc. As I said earlier, Goodlad has done more to help the disenfranchised in our country receive an education than anyone else. You stated that there are thousands of others with better ideas than Goodlad, but yet you can't produce this list of thousands. I would genuinely like to know who they are and see if I should be pushing their ideas.

  • Susan:

    I believe you are lucky to be in this country where you can still speak freely. These arguments you put up and the pride and argumentative tone are just distractions from reality. Our country is in trouble and if you think about it clearly you will realize that we will soon be on the path of silence. You will not be able to say anything that comes to your mind because your voice will be silenced by those who feel superior to you because they are in power. We have a short time to turn the tide. I hear in your use of words and supposed intellectualism that you are feeling superior in your mental capacities and in your arguments. You are one of many opinions and not unlike those in the past who have realized too late that they were only harming themselves.

  • Vankaron:

    Christ said that we must judge righteous judgement. Judgement used with the Holy Ghost or the light of Christ. In other words judgement where our mind is filtered with Gods mind. That can only be done when we live a Christ like life so his spirit can dwell in us. The Saviour is the one who set up the parameters on our sins and on homosexual behaviour. God did not say don't point the finger in judgement so that others won't point a finger at us. He said live righteously so you can return home. He is very committed to us when we are committed to him. He allows us to repent of our sins and our mistakes but we have to pay the price for the sin and truly repent. He does not just give it to us. In some cases like King David we can lose our salvation if we make a serious enough mistake. I believe that President Benson was and is a Prophet and if you accept him as a prophet you might think about all he says . . not just the things you personally agree with.

  • Susan:

    I believe you are lucky to be in this country where you can still speak freely. These arguments you put up and the pride and argumentative tone are just distractions from reality. Our country is in trouble and if you think about it clearly you will realize that we will soon be on the path of silence. You will not be able to say anything that comes to your mind because your voice will be silenced by those who feel superior to you because they are in power. We have a short time to turn the tide. I hear in your use of words and supposed intellectualism that you are feeling superior in your mental capacities and in your arguments. You are one of many opinions and not unlike those in the past who have realized too late that they were only harming themselves.

  • Vankaron:

    Christ said that we must judge righteous judgement. Judgement used with the Holy Ghost or the light of Christ. In other words judgement where our mind is filtered with Gods mind. That can only be done when we live a Christ like life so his spirit can dwell in us. The Saviour is the one who set up the parameters on our sins and on homosexual behaviour. God did not say don't point the finger in judgement so that others won't point a finger at us. He said live righteously so you can return home. He is very committed to us when we are committed to him. He allows us to repent of our sins and our mistakes but we have to pay the price for the sin and truly repent. He does not just give it to us. In some cases like King David we can lose our salvation if we make a serious enough mistake. I believe that President Benson was and is a Prophet and if you accept him as a prophet you might think about all he says . . not just the things you personally agree with.