Jordan School District Advertises for Goodlad

I was sent the following job announcement for a school in Jordan School District. This identical ad actually appears for a few of the schools in the district showing a requirement to thoroughly know Goodlad’s Moral Dimensions in order to be hired.

Job Title BYU Partnership Facilitator-Eastlake Elem.
Job Openings 1
Date Posted April 30, 2010
Job Description • Facilitate in-service education, curriculum development, and research/inquiry as related to the partnership.
• Assist principal in the selection of cooperating teachers to participate in pre-service training.
• Coordinate placement of pre-service students in the classroom.
• Instruct cooperating teachers to mentor and evaluate pre-service students’ performance.
• Team with BYU and district personnel to provide initial and on-going workshops, seminars, and site visitations for pre-service students.
• Communicate partnership program goals and activities to school faculty.
• Document partnership activities toward school renewal and improvement of teacher preparation.
• Demonstrate leadership in promoting all facets of the BYU/JSD Partnership.
• Direct an action research project within the school.
• Accept and complete occasional administrative assignments.
• Attend all partnership meetings.
Qualifications This is a full time position with the major responsibility being the mentoring and evaluating of interns, student teachers, and cohort students. This position requires a successful and respected educator with a minimum of five (5) years of elementary education experience. This position also requires excellent organizational, interpersonal, and communication skills.Experience in the following is preferred: • Advanced knowledge of curricular and instructional strategies (K-6)
Knowledge and understanding of John Goodlad’s Moral Dimensions
• Experience in collaboration and differentiation

119 Responses to “Jordan School District Advertises for Goodlad”

  • buffy:

    “Now, if you can show hard evidence that the teacher is pushing his or her personal views as some sort of subversive agenda, you may have a case.”

    If it doesn't really matter what philosophies teachers “subscribe” to, why is Jordan School District making it an important part of the resume criteria? Why is it important that applicants “Demonstrate leadership in promoting all facets of the BYU/JSD Partnership?” Wouldn't you be suspicious if one of the criteria were that you had demonstrated leadership in promoting Moromonism?

    Oak has clearly shown that Goodlad has a subversive agenda. And now they are hiring teachers on the condition that they have “demonstrated leadership” in promoting it. Do you still need “hard evidence”? Or are you going to continue attacking Oak and ignoring the facts that are already presented?

  • buffy:

    So you agree that Christians should go to jail for resisting homosexual indoctrination?

  • Good grief Lewis. I've explained this twice already. I have no idea what the Lone Peak boundary issue even is. I don't have any children in Lone Peak, so no, I don't have any involvement in it.

    Investigations math on the other hand, I've already acknowledged I was one of the main movers. I even started a comic strip as I just posted to Tupelo.

  • lewisbarnavelt:


  • lewisbarnavelt:

    Finally, an answer that isn't 1000 words long.

  • lewisbarnavelt:

    Oak, you and your lackeys are the biggest group of emotional reactionaries that I will probably ever encounter in my life. Predatory elitists? Where on earth do you get that out of Tupelo's comment? It is true that all revolutionaries, including our founding fathers and other agents of change, are considered liberal by those who wish to preserve the status quo. Conservatism is where you wish for time to stand still and keep things the way they are or were. All government systems have their beginnings in liberal ideology and then switch to conservative mode to preserve power or ideologies. This is just simple Poly Sci 101. Your continued attack on the word “Democracy” is steeped in your stubbornness to admit that the lexicon of the word “Democracy” has changed since the 18th century. What the founding fathers regarded as Democracy in the 18th century is now called “Direct Democracy, Pure Democracy, or Athenian Democracy.” Just get over yourself and admit it! I'm not sure what you do for a living, but you aren't impressing anyone who has a thinking brain with your amateurish diatribes. It is quite obvious that you are a hack in matters of political science.

    Buddhism actually has a precept that makes a lot of sense. In Buddhism it is regarded as self-destructive to obsess about the past and long for a mistaken perception that the past was some sort of utopia when in reality it wasn't. This is not 1776 or 1789. This is 2010 and our world is much more complex and complicated than our founding fathers ever imagined. In their wisdom, they left us with a living document, the Constitution, that maintains a degree of rigidity, but is flexible enough to be subject to judicial review and the amendment process to help our society adapt peacefully to the changes in the world and of society. Perhaps it will be amended out of its original intent and out of existence, but even Thomas Jefferson understood that when stated that, “Instead of considering what is past, however, we are to look forward and prepare for the future.”

  • buffy:

    Ummm, yes. Didn't you read the 3 examples? Answer the question.

  • Lewis,
    1) “Predatory elitists” was a reference to the webpage that ASD linked to, not Tupelo's comments.
    2) Nobody is arguing that the word “democracy” has changed in meaning. It has. It's widely accepted to mean something different than it did a couple hundred years ago.
    3) The purpose of this site was to advocate that we not lose track of what a Republic is, since that IS our form of government and it is the only form of government mentioned in our founding documents.
    4) (note, you can research this all you want but I'm going to really truncate the major points so please don't criticize me for not drawing all the connections) The reason the word “democracy” has caused a stir beyond item 2 is simply because ASD has in their professional development center a sign calling for “enculturating the young into a social and political democracy.” A social democracy is a transformation of society from capitalism to socialism. This phrase comes from John Goodlad who wants moral relativism. ASD has obviously bought into this philosophy because they linked to a radical mentioned in item 1 above where this William P. Meyers says “the Founding Fathers gave us a Republic but thankfully we're moving toward a Democracy.” He means a PURE democracy. The same thing John Goodlad and Bill Ayers want. The connection between these people is they want true democracy. I'm not saying ASD wants that (at least not to my direct knowledge), but they have bought into some other of Goodlad's bad philosophies without using their noggins like constructivist math, which is one glaring example of how Goodlad's group-think has been horribly involved in our children's lives.

    If you disagree with this then we must agree to disagree. I really see little reason for you to waste either of our time in pointless discussion if you're just here to fill the comments section of these posts.

  • Actually, if a picture is worth 1000 words and there are over 100 pictures on that site, then that post could be over 100,000 words long. :)

  • ASD Teacher:

    Interesting that you decry conservatives. You say, “Conservatism is where you wish for time to stand still and keep things the way they are or were. All government systems have their beginnings in liberal ideology and then switch to conservative mode to preserve power or ideologies.” Sounds more like you. Now that we have slipped ever so slowly into being a socialistic society, you want to keep the status quo. You don't like us trying to change to a more free enterprise, capitalistic society. You don't want change from what we are now. Maybe, just maybe, today's conservatives, who are more in line with our Founding Father's philosophies, are really the liberals as they were. That of course would mean Democrats and Socialists are really conservatives trying to stop those of us who are trying to reestablish freedom based on personal responsibility, instead of the elite nobles in government guaranteeing everything and eventually, ruthlessly forcing it on everyone.

  • ASD Teacher:

    Interesting that you decry conservatives. You say, “Conservatism is where you wish for time to stand still and keep things the way they are or were. All government systems have their beginnings in liberal ideology and then switch to conservative mode to preserve power or ideologies.” Sounds more like you. Now that we have slipped ever so slowly into being a socialistic society, you want to keep the status quo. You don't like us trying to change to a more free enterprise, capitalistic society. You don't want change from what we are now. Maybe, just maybe, today's conservatives, who are more in line with our Founding Father's philosophies, are really the liberals as they were. That of course would mean Democrats and Socialists are really conservatives trying to stop those of us who are trying to reestablish freedom based on personal responsibility, instead of the elite nobles in government guaranteeing everything and eventually, ruthlessly forcing it on everyone.

  • lewisbarnavelt:

    I'm not so sure about “clearly.”

  • lewisbarnavelt:

    So everything is now in absolutes, either you agree with Goodlad or you are against him? How about with partly agreeing with him and partly disagreeing with him? I can understand your problems with Goodlad, but to supplant Goodlad completely with pure Christian dogma is basically doing the same thing that Goodlad wants to do, just different philosophies. You must be sensitive to people who challenge your thinking. Hurling insults? I haven't called you names. I've attacked your arguments, but I have not attacked you personally. In regards to your question: “Do you agree that Christians should go to jail for resisting “tolerance” education?” I can't really answer that question because you have not given an object to tolerance. Tolerance in regards to what? Are you referring to homosexuals and if so, what aspect of tolerance? Tolerate their existence, civil unions, or marriage? Also, exactly what do you mean by resist? Are you referring to peaceful resistance or violent resistance? If you can clarify your question, I then may be able to answer it.

  • lewisbarnavelt:

    I'm certainly not trying to keep the status quo, but I certainly don't want it replaced with something worse such as the theocratic dogma that Oak peddles. It is funny how you equate socialism with Democrats. Republicans have plenty of socialism of their own. If you are so capitalist, are you willing to give up the largest redistribution of wealth items on your tax forms: The child tax deduction and the mortgage deduction? A lot of Republicans like to say how capitalist they are, but they seem quite upset if they don't don't get those deductions that others must pay for.

  • lewisbarnavelt:

    Let's say the district has an agenda to brainwash our children to be mini-socialists. I have yet to see evidence of how that has translated into the classroom where the children are actually learning. Mottos and vision statements are a trendy thing that really means nothing to employees or children. Have you ever considered the possibility that nobody at the district level even knows what their motto actually means? If they aren't really pushing this agenda in the classroom, then why all the hullabaloo?

  • buffy:

    It's really not the same thing because I am not trying to force my Christian beliefs on anyone. Goodlad is. We've already agreed to the fact that no one particular view should be forced on anyone, though we are seeing evidence (in Massachusetts) that it is.

    I will try to clarify my question one more time (Oh, and calling me a homophobe or insinuating that I'm a nazi, is hardly attacking my “arguments.”)

    Do you agree that Christians should go to jail for peacefully resisting homosexual “tolerance” indoctrination? (indoctrination means “to imbue with a specific partisan or biased belief or point of view.”) So yes, that is the word I mean.

  • buffy:

    If Jordan school district isn't really pushing Goodlad's agenda, then why are they hiring teachers that “Demonstrate leadership in promoting all facets of the BYU/JSD Partnership?” Apparently they need more of this kind of influence. And you would go nuts and start a petition if they were hiring teachers who demonstrated leadership in promoting all facets of the Mormon faith. You and your lackeys and all the coffee drinkers would be making such a hullabaloo, we'd never hear the end of it.

    Seriously. The EVIDENCE is right in front of you!

  • lewisbarnavelt:

    You are making the assumption that those young people being hired as teachers are viewing Goodlad and the BYU Partnership the same way as you do. Also, since BYU is a Mormon-run institution, there should be no difference in hiring those who promote all facets of the Mormon faith and those who espouse the BYU partnership. If BYU is promoting Goodlad, then the LDS chrurch is promoting Goodlad. Since I'm LDS, who am I to question the church leadership? If you are an active LDS member, who are you to question the church leadership?

  • lewisbarnavelt:

    Thank you for your clarification. Inserting the words peacefully and homosexual at least makes your question easier to answer. I'm not sure why you defined indoctrination. I'm quite aware of what that means. I fail to understand how homosexuals have been indoctrinating us. In reality, we are being indoctrinated by everyone and every group so why banning homosexual indoctrination while allowing other groups to have a free indoctrinating pass is okay just staggers the imagination. I wouldn't insinuate your Nazi like thinking if you didn't use their same political tactics of stifling the speech of one group in favor of the speech of another. I can't help but make the correlation. The last time I looked out my window, this was America where groups do have a right to vocalize their concerns and beliefs, no matter how much we don't like it. It is a part of living in a free society. It is obvious you have no tolerance of homosexuals so I it is a legitimate concern to understand your viewpoints. The point of this website is to change the district mission statement, but then one must ask, what ideology do you wish to use to indoctrinate the kids. Is it right to teach students to marginalize or abuse a segment of society (homosexuals) because of unfounded fear? That is what happened to the homosexuals in Nazi Germany as well as other groups. Once you start down this path, where will it stop?

    To answer your question: If Christians or any group of people peacefully resists homosexual indoctrination, they should not go to jail. On the flip side, if homosexuals peacefully resist Christian indoctrination, then they should also not got to jail. I'm not sure why you are asking this question in the first place. I have not heard of Christians going to jail for peacefully resisting homosexual ideologies.

    Now if you will reciprocate and answer my questions about your beliefs in regards to homosexuals. Should homosexual cohabitation be forbidden? Should homosexuals be denied the right to hospital visitations of their partners? Should homosexuals be incarcerated for engaging in sexual conduct with each other? Is homosexuality a choice or is it inborn? If homosexuality is a choice, why would so many choose to be unhappy since the suicide rate among homosexuals is quite high? If your own child said he/she was homosexual, would you ostracize or disown him/her?

    P.S. Where on earth did you get the name “Buffy?”

  • buffy:

    NO, no. I am making the assumption that they DON'T view Goodlad and the BYU partnership the same way I do. Goodlad uses words and ideologies that don't make his intentions obvious. So he's going to have people promoting his views, either intentionally or ignorantly. It's going to do damage either way.

    Also, we're not talking about who BYU hires. We are talking about who JSD is hiring. In fact, I think that someone could bring a discrimination law suit against them for hiring according to one particular ideology. Can you imagine the hullabaloo if they hired according to sexual orientation?!

    As far as BYU hiring Goodlad…”even the elect can be deceived.” It is always our privilege and responsibility to discern our leadership. And even though they have been “called by church leadership”, there have been many leaders in the church who have fallen away.

    Joseph Fielding Smith said, “An individual may fall by the wayside, or have views, or give counsel which falls short of what the Lord intends. But the voice of the First Presidency and the united voice of those others who hold with them the keys of the kingdom shall always guide the Saints and the world in those paths where the Lord wants them to be. . . .

    I think I've got you figured out. When you realize you are wrong, you either
    1. Insult people or
    2. Change the subject

    Why can't you just admit defeat and join Oak? We could use you :)

  • buffy:

    My mother.

    I am glad that you agree that Christians should not go to jail for peacefully resisting homosexual “tolerance” indoctrination in schools.

    And I'm especially glad that you thought it was a perplexing enough dilemma that you wanted me to offer a solution. I'd be happy to:

    Teach character, not tolerance…I mean…homosexuality…I mean, “morality”. Oh, yeah, you already agreed with me on that too.

    And, I am extraordinarily glad that you agree that John Goodlad's philosophies should not be exclusively taught in our schools.

    Sounds like you and Oak have quite a bit in common…does that make you a lackey now?

  • buffy:

    And yes I will reciprocate, even though this is a completely different subject now. These are my personal views:
    Should homosexual cohabitation be forbidden? Yes.
    Should homosexuals be denied the right to hospital visitations of their partners? Of course not.
    Should homosexuals be incarcerated for engaging in sexual conduct with each other? Yes. It is dangerous behavior and causes harm. Laws are made and enforced to protect people and society:

    * The median age of death of homosexuals is 42 (only 9% live past age 65). This drops to 39 if the cause of death is AIDS. The median age of death of a married heterosexual man is 75.

    * The median age of death of lesbians is 45 (only 24% live past age 65). The median age of death of a married heterosexual woman is 79.” Fields, Dr. E. “Is Homosexual Activity Normal?” Marietta, GA.

    Is homosexuality a choice or is it inborn? I think you always have a choice, no matter your dispositions.

    If homosexuality is a choice, why would so many choose to be unhappy since the suicide rate among homosexuals is so high? I think the choice to succumb to that kind of disposition would be agonizing. I think that the self (or) other inflicted incriminations would be brutal. But I do believe that God can change any and all natures, including mine.

    If your own child said he/she was homosexual, would you ostricize or disown him/her? Never. I would love them even more for having enough confidence in me to share something like that. I believe we are all down here to learn self-mastery and self-love and I would encourage them to cultivate both. I think these character traits grow hand in hand. I think we have to take responsibility for feeling good about ourselves and not blame others if we don't.

    Where on earth did you get the name “Lewis?”

  • lewisbarnavelt:

    Since homosexuality is a choice, why not let them choose to shorten their life expectancy? Also, how do you plan on criminalizing homosexual sex? Placing a camera in everyone's bedrooms? Are you promoting an Orwellian type of government to monitor the sexual conduct of two consenting adults? What is next? Criminalizing unnatural sexual conduct between heterosexuals that certainly does not lead to conception? Also, isn't tolerance a “character” issue? Is it right to teach our children to marginalize and imprison people based upon private sexual conduct? You say that you would still love your children if they were admittedly homosexual. Do you love them enough to deny them some degree of happiness in finding a partner and living as normal of life as possible or do you love them so much that you would place them in prison to waste away in despair because they have same-sex attractions and desire sex just as much as the next person. Why should homosexuals be able to abstain when heterosexuals are unable to abstain. In conclusion, who really cares? In my long life, I've known of very few homosexuals. It seems they keep to their world, and I keep to mine. I don't feel threatened by them. I'm not going to turn gay because they might be in the same room. Why must they be discriminated against? Perhaps Goodlad is correct. Perhaps we should create a social democracy, because the version you are offering is downright scary and immoral in its own way.

  • lewisbarnavelt:

    I will never turn to the dark side!

    I'm not trying to change the subject but probing deeper, because getting rid of one philosophy means that it will be supplanted by another. I'm under the assumption that Oak wishes to push his ideologies so therefore I'm trying to probe deeper in an effort to gain an understanding of his (and his followers) broader viewpoints. I'm a fervent believer of the separation of church and state and when someone pushes Christian views on those who are not Christian, my hair stands on end. I'm a Christian person but if one group is allowed to push their religious ideology, then it opens to the door for other groups to push their religious agendas in public schools. Do you really want to empower radical Islamic extremists to push their ideologies in public schools? That is exactly what will happen if it becomes legal for radical Christian ideologies to be promoted in public schools. For example, your support for the incarceration of those who engage in homosexual sex is one such example. That is the type of thing that they do in Iran, except they execute known homosexuals. Is a religious theocracy like that found in Iran something that you support? It seems like that to me.

  • Lewis, I have no idea where you're getting the notion I want to force Christian beliefs on everyone. I've never said that nor do I believe it's right. Removing the religious doctrine of humanism and replacing it with moral teachings is fine. If the stories were used out of the Bible, I'd have no problem with that, but nobody is advocating any type of religious teaching.

  • Bob Moore:

    So, I am confused. I just read that Oak, you admit that the word “Democracy” has changed since the time of our Founding Fathers. You claim that you are fighting against ASD's mission statement. You claim that a 'social democracy' leads to socialism. You claim that Goodlad is trying to turn our society into socialism through public education.
    So what is the BIG DEAL?
    How are you connecting 'social democracy' to ASD? ASD's Mission Statement is “Educating All Students To Ensure The Future Of Our Democracy.” I don't see the word “Social” in there at all- do you? Obviously, ASD purposely did not include the word “social” for a reason. Yes Goodlad's Moral Principles do say “Enculturating the Young in a Social and Political Democracy” but you will clearly notice that ASD did not use that Moral principle word for word.
    Claiming that Goodlad meant Socialism by using the word 'social' is ridiculous. I guess then every time my LDS ward uses the word 'social' in “ice cream social” they are also promoting Socialism. Maybe I should quit attending my church in case they are actually trying to enculturate me to socialism?
    Can you imagine the outcry the people of Utah county would have if ASD had used the word “political” in connection to their mission statement? Good thing they avoided that one- otherwise the Board members might have been tarred and feathered if they did anything political.
    Oak, you are a confusing man. I happen to agree with Tupelo that you are promoting FEAR and not TRUTH. You need to turn Glenn Beck off and read your scriptures more. You might realize that you should be focused on the positives going on in this world and not 'potential negatives' like ASD, BYU, and JSD are supporting socialism. Do you realize how many positive things are going on in our public schools? Can you see past your misperception to realize that Public schools are the only thing keeping our society as peaceful, harmonious, and tolerable as it is. We are a country of 300 million people and we some how come together on almost every issue there is. People like you and Glenn Beck and all those wacky radio personalities are tearing that unity apart. By creating emotional arguments and misstating facts people are living in fear that our world is falling apart due to small changes going on in our country. People in the LDS faith are not supposed to be tearing down our society but building it up. Public Education IS the foundation of our society. NO schools are not perfect and neither are the teachers (they are human after all)- but to tear down the only institution in our country that helps UNITE us is absurd. The people who have signed your petition don't really care about a Republic or not- they just want to destroy public education- Howard Stephenson, Gayle Ruzicka, Chris Buttars, etc. are great examples of my point.
    Satan has attacked our homes and families forever so the next most important place for him to attack is our schools. The more you lead people away from supporting Public Education the more you allign yourself with the Adversary.

  • lewisbarnavelt:

    It sure sounds like Buffy is advocating Christian beliefs in our schools and since Buffy is one of your advocates, you therefore are promoting Christian beliefs. Isn't that the same type of logical fallacy you use to say that ASD is promoting socialism and Marxism–guilt by association?

  • buffy:

    Lewis, either you believe in right and wrong, and that it applies to everyone. Or you don't. If you believe that homosexuality and premarital sex and adultery are wrong, then they are wrong for everyone.

    Or, you can take the opposing stance and say that right and wrong is whatever we decide that it is, and everyone can define that for themselves. If you take the latter stance, society is going to go down the toilet because even killing, theft, drug abuse, pedophilia, etc. will become “moral” based on somebody's personal view.

    If you take the first, like our founding fathers did, you base law on morality (or absolute truth.) Did you know that there have been laws against homosexuality up until 1961? Did you know that there were laws and regulations against pre-marital sex until 1995? Did you know that adultery in Pennsylvania was punishable by up to 2 years in prison until 1972? Can you believe the audacity?! It's been nothing but mahem having these repressive Christian values on the books!

    Either you believe in right and wrong, or you don't. You STILL can't have it both ways.

  • buffy:

    Bob, if you have something NEW to contribute to the conversation, I'm sure we'd all appreciate it.

  • Lewis: “It sure sounds like Buffy is advocating Christian beliefs in our schools”

    That's funny. I don't recall Buffy ever saying lets teach Christianity in our schools. Do you have a reference?

  • Bob, if you missed how ASD injected themselves into this issue, try reading this:

    Before ASD changed their motto to “Educating all Students to Ensure the Future of our Democracy,” they used to print the Goodlad phrase on all their district mailers. “Enculturating the Young into a Social and Political Democracy.”

    If you saw the media storm and drew conclusions about what this site is about you really need to read more on this site. I suggest these pages.

    Since you're LDS, why don't you compare Goodlad's phrases with Korihor's in Alma 30. They're birds of a feather. Hmmm, maybe studying the scriptures more to recognize these things IS a good thing since the Book of Mormon was *written for OUR day* right?

    That's pretty funny you'd say Howard Stephenson & others want to destroy public education. I'll side with Howard any day of the week. He's tried to raise teachers salaries for years. If it wasn't for Howard we wouldn't have gotten the state math standards raised a couple years ago. Howard is perhaps the best advocate for BETTER education in this state.

  • buffy:

    BTW, just because Christians embraces absolute truth, the same truth that the laws have been founded on, doesn't mean they are forcing Christianity on everyone else. You can find absolute truth in many religions.

  • Owning a company and having a division that does things under their own division leadership is common. The church may own BYU but the departments are independent of the church. What BYU's education department does is quite independent of the church.

  • Holy cow Lewis, how many times are you going to talk about theocratic stuff? Nobody is espousing we start teaching theology in schools. As for the parties, you bet the republicans have socialists among them. I've criticized them plenty the last several years. As for redistribution of wealth, it's not the child tax deduction or mortgage deduction, it's the child tax credit that is a refundable credit even when you haven't paid taxes. That's redistribution of wealth. Give to those who have children that DON'T PAY taxes.

  • Try the constructivist Investigations math. Group work, low skills, low challenge, process oriented instead of result oriented, high on equality, promoted by…Goodlad. :)

  • Are you LDS Lewis? Do you believe the Book of Mormon was written for our day? Why is Korihor’s story there if not to expose the humanists such as Dewey and Goodlad. They are shining examples of his doctrine.

    As for Howard, you clearly don’t understand the nature of lobbying. When you are a member of the legislature and lobby the legislature and vote on legislation you are lobbying for, that would clearly be a conflict of interest. But Howard is not a lobbyist to the legislative branch. He is a lobbyist to the executive branch and so his actions in the legislature do not fall into the same conflict of interest. How many other people have access to speak with the governor and actually register as lobbyists. Clearly, Howard is among those following the rules most stringently by publicly announcing his intention, whilst those who fail to register are clearly the ones in the wrong.

  • Are you saying Goodlad doesn’t fit the mold? Isn’t an anti-Christ? He’s an avowed atheist and humanist.

    Alma 30:17 “[Korihor]…telling them that there could be no atonement made for the sins of men, but every man fared in this life according to the management of the creature; therefore every man prospered according to his genius, and that every man conquered according to his strength;…”

    Humanism is the elevation of man over deity. The belief that there is no God, but just what the senses can detect. There is no plan for man, only how man fares in life according to the intelligence and strength of the individual. Not only that, but just like Korihor who had an agenda to spread to the populace, so today John Dewey had an agenda to spread using the education system as the vehicle of transmission. Goodlad follows in Dewey’s footsteps.

    As I’ve said before, it’s not like everything he says is wrong. Much of it is just fine. It’s the fact that he has a stated agenda to push children away from parents, and steer children toward humanism. If you don’t believe or accept that, we just really disagree. I encourage you to read the quotes posted on this page again:

    There’s really not anything else to discuss about this.

  • lewisbarnavelt:

    It is our perception that I'm backed into a corner, but I certainly don't feel like it. I'm quite aware there were laws against all sorts of “sex crimes.” However, most states never enforced those laws since you would have half of the population behind bars. Nobody said that I was trying to have it both ways, but the world is full of gray areas and everything is not in absolutes or black and white. This notion of either “you are with us or you are against us” is silly and indicates two dimensional thinking. Of course, as you accuse me of not answering your questions, you apparently could not answer any of the questions I asked in my previous post. Perhaps they would reveal your true nature.

  • lewisbarnavelt:

    I'm not surprised! You seem to always read and remember those thing that you want to see and hear. Perhaps you need to reread the posts. Buffy is pretty much all about Christianity versus the world.

  • lewisbarnavelt:

    Now Goodlad is being compared to Korihor? Give me a break! As my old BYU history professor used to say in response to ridiculous things, “Jesus, come quick and save us!”

    Howard Stephenson is the epitome of ethical corruption. Isn't it wrong to be a sitting legislator and concurrently run a lobby group “The Utah Taxpayers Association” that actively solicits and influences state law in the legislature. If that isn't a conflict of interest, what is?

  • lewisbarnavelt:

    So the education department at BYU is completely independent of BYU? I find it hard to believe that the church would allow a pariah department to run amuck, completely unnoticed for all these years. Have you tried contacting the church to let them know that an anti-christ (Korihor)(Goodlad) is spreading falsehoods on their very flagship campus? You have it all figured out don't you? I'm actually laughing so hard that my sides hurt.

  • lewisbarnavelt:

    When you say Christians are you referring to Mormons because many Christian faiths don't believe Mormons are Christians? How does that fit in the pursuit of truth?

  • lewisbarnavelt:

    I think there is a big difference in someone who doesn't believe in Christ and an an agent of Satan, an anti-Christ. Adolf Hitler is an anti-Christ, not John Goodlad. Personally attacking John Goodlad in this manner is extreme at best. Yes, I'm LDS and a former BYU student, but I consider myself to be a rationale LDS person who believes in being “in” the church but not “of” the church. I can keep my head more clear if I don't sell my soul to a group of people who blend politics and church together to further a personal political agenda. It may sometimes come off that I'm not LDS but that is because I challenge the thinking of my peers.

    I fervently believe in a separation of church and state. It is ironic how Republicans believe that the Democrats want to dismantle our right to bear arms, but at the same time Republicans want to blur the lines between the separation of church and state. Public schools are government entities, and no matter how much I would like to see the values I personally believe in (Christian values) taught in public schools, it isn't appropriate under our Constitution. Why not find shared values among various groups and religions and call it character education?

  • lewisbarnavelt:

    Do you seriously believe that the Utah Taxpayer Association doesn't have any influence over the legislative branch? Are you aware that the Executive Branch does have the power to sign a bill into a law or veto a law, so that even though the Utah Taxpayer Association may only solicit the Executive Branch, they can still influence legislation? Apologize all you want for Howard Stephenson, but this state has real problem with unethical conduct and with people such as you making excuse for it. I also want to get rid of the Caucus system. Delegates are democratically elected with caucus meetings often being overrun by a mob of people who, in the meeting I attended, booed and hissed and intimidated a fellow conservative who had the fault of being a teacher. You are right that pure democracy can lead to mob rule and that is exactly was is happening in Utah. I am assuming that you support an end to the caucus system because of its democratic nature? Even Carl Wimmer pointed out a weakness in the caucus system by suggesting that Republicans crash the Democratic caucus. Isn't that an example of a mob?

  • The UTA certainly does have influence in the legislature, but Howard isn't a paid lobbyist to the legislature.

    As for caucuses, Wimmer's point was that for years the Democrats have been telling the Republicans they needed to have “open caucuses” so anyone could come vote. That's stupid. Wimmer's comment, although not one I support, merely points out this fact and takes advantage of the Dems open caucus. The parties should put forth their own delegates and candidates and not make caucuses open.

  • Lewis, an anti-Christ isn't just someone who is very publicly denounced as evil. Korihor had free reign to go around preaching to people. He wasn't putting anyone to death. He was a normal citizen with an agenda to get people to stop believing in God. It was ancient humanism the same as modern day humanism. Read Elder Christofferson's talk from last conference. Why did he feel the need to share this doctrine? I don't think it was for modern day Hitlers.

    Did you read my writeup on the separation of church and state? Just curious. I'd like to know your definition of it since that phrase doesn't appear in the constitution or founding documents.

  • Tupelo:

    So Oak, you once again Cherry pick from a book- this time it is Alma.
    Alma 30 versus 9 and 11: “Now if a man desired to serve God, it was his privilege; or rather, if he believed in God it was his privilege to serve him; but if he did not believe in him there was no law to punish him. . . For there was a law that men should be judged according to their crimes. Nevertheless, there was no law against a man’s belief; therefore, a man was punished only for the crimes which he had done; therefore all men were on equal grounds.”
    You would have us treat Goodlad and Dewey as criminals and evil men like Korihor and yet you miss obvious doctrine in the same scripture. The above quote shows you cannot do this- at least if you believe that the BofM was written for our times, otherwise why would this scripture be in there? Those men committed no crime and yet you condemn them to hell for promoting ideas you disagree with.
    Also, your notion of Humanism is inaccurate. It is not meant to put man above god but show the glory of man- God's greatest creation. Without Humanism Europeans would have never left the Dark ages. It is the celebration of man. Yes, it can lead to some people feeling they are superior or equal to God but that does not mean that all followers of Humanistic ideals feel that way. The early notions of Humanism were started by the Ancient Greeks. Your attack on this philosophy shows your limited understanding of history. By attacking Humanism you are basically all of Western civilization- including your beloved Republic (Greek idea also).
    Of course if you want to argue that words- like Humanism or Democracy- can have their meanings change over time, then I guess you could say any word can have multiple meanings and intentions based on the perception of the reader of that word. And therefore your whole premise of this website is based on nothing.

  • Tupelo:

    Oak, is Buffy your wife? Maybe Howard Stephenson is your bedfellow instead. I can't tell who you are more in love with.
    Stephenson has not ever been a friend of education. Talk about indoctrinating our youth into misled beliefs. He does not care about teachers and has actually tried to pass many laws that hurt our teachers not help them. My friends and neighbors who are involved in education have been harmed by Stephson many times. He has personally told me that public education is a monopoly that needs to be broken. How is a comment like that helping education in anyway? Like Bob said below, anyone who attacks public education is an enemy to the people of our state and country. I know public education is not perfect, but it needs to be improved not torn down like Stephenson wants. If we have an uneducated people, we will be like every other 3rd world country in the world.
    Stephenson has also helped pass the tax cuts that mostly harmed public education and other public works but benefited legislators and their pet projects- which Stephenson has many of. He support the notion of steal from the poor to feed the rich. Keep defending this man and his selfishness and greed- it only shows what kind of person you are.

  • Tupelo, I'm sorry but you're just plain wrong. Go research the humanist manifesto that Dewey was one of the original signers of. Goodlad has been a keynote speaker at John Dewey conferences and has won the John Dewey award. They are birds of a feather.

    If the whole premise of this website is based on nothing, why is it of any interest to you to post here? Obviously it's striking a chord or you'd just ignore it.

  • buffy:

    Lewis, are you changing the subject again? Where exactly is the gray line between
    1. There is absolute truth that applies to everyone. And
    2. There's no such thing as absolute truth, so we can all define our own morality, according to our own “perceptions”?